Leadership Coach Michelle Moreno joins Jim Taylor of Benchmark Sixty and Adam Lamb of Chef Life Coaching to discuss the current state of hospitality leadership and three things you can do right now to uplevel your management style.
To learn more about Michelle and her work:
The Ethos The Ten Principles of Embodied Leadership
Free Download: Make Time Your Superpower
https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelle-moreno-1b843620/
https://qableadership.com/the-10-principles-of-embodied-leadership/
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Turning the Table is the most progressive podcast for today's food and beverage industry featuring staff-centric operating solutions for restaurants in the #newhospitalityculture.
Join Jim Taylor of Benchmark Sixty and Adam Lamb as they "turn the tables" on the prevailing operating assumptions of the restaurant business in favor of innovative solutions to our industry's most persistent challenges.
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My name is Adam Lamb and I am a career coach for chefs and hospitality
Adam Lamb:professionals@cheflifecoaching.com.
Adam Lamb:And we have my dear friend and co-host Jim Taylor of Benchmark.
Adam Lamb:Welcome, Jim.
Adam Lamb:Yeah.
Adam Lamb:How are you?
Adam Lamb:And just to be clear Palm Springs lovely.
JimmTaylor:Yep.
JimmTaylor:Yeah.
JimmTaylor:Working remotely for the next couple of weeks, actually.
JimmTaylor:So
Adam Lamb:there you go.
Adam Lamb:Yeah.
Adam Lamb:This is, this is episode 1 1 8, transforming Hospitality Leadership.
Adam Lamb:And in a minute we're gonna be talking to leadership coach Michelle Moreno.
Adam Lamb:We're gonna be discussing the current state of hospitality leadership and
Adam Lamb:three things that you can do right now to uplevel your management style.
Adam Lamb:This lunchbox live stream is broadcast every week on Thursday
Adam Lamb:at 12 noon Eastern time.
Adam Lamb:On the Turning the Table podcast page on LinkedIn, YouTube, and the Chef
Adam Lamb:Life Coach page On Facebook, you can catch the podcast version everywhere
Adam Lamb:you get your podcasts in two days.
Adam Lamb:We ask that you share the show with someone you care about who can find this
Adam Lamb:information useful and leave a review.
Adam Lamb:As always, the links to any videos or other things that we discuss
Adam Lamb:will be listed in the show notes.
Adam Lamb:And before we bring Michelle on, I just wanted to quickly.
Adam Lamb:Highlight.
Adam Lamb:So, Jim, it's pretty clear that a lot of the people who watch or listen to
Adam Lamb:the show are routinely taking aback at our transparency and vulnerability.
Adam Lamb:talking about high stress situations which I think, which I think is probably
Adam Lamb:one of the nicest things that anybody ever said, like that what we're talking
Adam Lamb:about resonates with them and serves as an opportunity to shift their perspective.
Adam Lamb:And even last night, Woke up and I had this this DM sent to me by a
Adam Lamb:friend who said, I need you right now.
Adam Lamb:I'm so sorry because right now I don't want to be that guy.
Adam Lamb:I need to be seen and heard.
Adam Lamb:And I said, do you wanna chat?
Adam Lamb:He said, man, I don't wanna offload on you.
Adam Lamb:And I said, well, that's what friends are for, we chef.
Adam Lamb:And my, my message is like, please, for fuck's sake, be that guy.
Adam Lamb:Yeah.
Adam Lamb:If you, if you're struggl.
Adam Lamb:And you need somebody ask for what you want.
Adam Lamb:I know it's a skill that most of us, you know, are, are very unpracticed at.
Adam Lamb:But there, there are people who will stand by you and we'll give you some
Adam Lamb:space so that you can offload mm-hmm.
Adam Lamb:and so.
Adam Lamb:Like, I know when I was in my shit, I probably thought the same thing to myself.
Adam Lamb:Like, I don't wanna call my friends, I don't wanna talk to anybody.
Adam Lamb:I know I don't want to be that guy who just emotionally dumps.
Adam Lamb:But if you're not, if you're not willing to be courageous enough
Adam Lamb:to have that, like, what else?
Adam Lamb:What else do we have, Jim?
Adam Lamb:Like what other alternatives do we have for this incredibly high stressed
Adam Lamb:season that we're like cooking into?
Adam Lamb:Yeah.
JimmTaylor:You and I talked about the topic of resiliency before.
JimmTaylor:Mm-hmm.
JimmTaylor:and.
JimmTaylor:You know, going back to 10, 15 years ago, 20 years ago when I first started
JimmTaylor:my hospitality career, you know, we talked a lot about we want to, we
JimmTaylor:wanna work with and hire resilient people right into the industry.
JimmTaylor:But, you know, looking back now, what we really were saying in a different way was
JimmTaylor:we just sort of gonna try and hire people who just don't bitch about what's going on
JimmTaylor:Right.
JimmTaylor:And you know, I think looking back now, Bitch about it, talk about it.
JimmTaylor:You gotta get stuff off your chest, you gotta work through things.
JimmTaylor:You gotta ask for help.
JimmTaylor:You know, and, and I think, you know, to your comment a few minutes ago about
JimmTaylor:what maybe some people are enjoying, watching or listening to what we talk
JimmTaylor:about is, you know, working on food cost is important, working on building sales is
JimmTaylor:important, but, you know, hopefully we're addressing some things that are a little
JimmTaylor:bit deeper than that, that our, you know, trying to improve the, the experience for
JimmTaylor:the next generation of, of restaurant.
JimmTaylor:You know, that's, I'm really
Adam Lamb:passionable, so, and I'm continually blown away because I started
Adam Lamb:my particular podcast off Life Radio in 2014 and there was nothing like,
Adam Lamb:nothing like it anywhere, and nobody was talking about mental health issues.
Adam Lamb:And so I put that away for a while and then when I came back and decided now
Adam Lamb:this is the way I wanna spend the rest of my time, I was like blown away about
Adam Lamb:all the organizations that are out there that are focused on mental health and
Adam Lamb:wellness in the hospitality industry.
Adam Lamb:This is an excellent time to ask for help.
Adam Lamb:So please, please, please, please don't suffer in silence.
Adam Lamb:And just so that you know, at the chef life coaching.com, there's a tab that
Adam Lamb:says Support that has a whole list of organizations like the Burn Chef
Adam Lamb:Project, not nine to five Chow with links and phone numbers and all that stuff.
Adam Lamb:So help is as close as you know, your thumbs.
Adam Lamb:Yeah.
Adam Lamb:And to that, Of dealing with high stress , we'd like to bring in our good friend
Adam Lamb:Michelle Moreno le QAB Leadership.
Adam Lamb:I'm Michelle.
Michelle Moreno:I'm Hello.
Michelle Moreno:Thank you for having me
Adam Lamb:both Jim and I were incredibly excited when you said yes.
Adam Lamb:Because I think and I don't wanna speak for Jim, but I'm always impressed
Adam Lamb:by your enthusiasm, your positivity especially in a, in a business climate
Adam Lamb:where it's not necessarily the easiest thing to, to look on the bright side.
Michelle Moreno:So, yeah, it's been a journey for everyone.
Michelle Moreno:You know, that I think I've always been passionate, I idolized this industry but
Michelle Moreno:I made a lot of mistakes in some very stressful years that were pointed out to
Michelle Moreno:me by people I loved dearly and that were, you know, people who were of the team.
Michelle Moreno:And I decided it's time to change and I take to take all the good.
Michelle Moreno:And they need to delete out all the bad stuff.
Michelle Moreno:And that is where, how we've got to QAD leadership today.
Michelle Moreno:So thank you.
Adam Lamb:I'm curious because I, I, I find that sometimes like
Adam Lamb:learning what not to do is probably more impactful what to do.
Adam Lamb:So, yeah.
Adam Lamb:Can you point to a particular incident that really sticks with you, like when
Adam Lamb:you were young and perhaps not as mature in your leadership style, is there
Adam Lamb:one thing that like sticks out to you?
Adam Lamb:Like, oh gosh, that was so bad.
Adam Lamb:. Michelle Moreno: Oh gosh, how many,
Adam Lamb:people, you know, like when we have, cause we had an international company,
Adam Lamb:so we would have Zoom calls with like, you know, Dubai and London.
Adam Lamb:And if I'm on one, like you are getting calls out publicly,
Adam Lamb:you know, to get things done.
Adam Lamb:And now I look back and think, what were you doing?
Adam Lamb:Of course they were.
Adam Lamb:Judging my behavior as they should have done.
Adam Lamb:Not getting to the point of do you need help?
Adam Lamb:What is an understanding?
Adam Lamb:So I think my calling out publicly is probably something I did
Adam Lamb:often and, you know, loudly,
Adam Lamb:it's fantastic.
Adam Lamb:We promised the listeners that we're gonna get to three things yes.
Adam Lamb:That they can do today to up level their management game.
Adam Lamb:But Michelle, I think.
Adam Lamb:Like, how do I know that I need to uplevel my management game?
Adam Lamb:Like everything seems to be going okay, given the fact that I can give
Adam Lamb:my power away to the economy or the supply chain or you know, my regional,
Adam Lamb:like, what if I am not clear that I actually need to uplevel my game?
Michelle Moreno:Well, let's look at facts.
Michelle Moreno:We don't have, re retention isn't strong in our industry, so let's,
Michelle Moreno:let's not be person about about it.
Michelle Moreno:F.
Michelle Moreno:We do not seem to be strong in this in our industry.
Michelle Moreno:Otherwise we would have teams staying with us wanting to grow.
Michelle Moreno:So if people find it difficult to actually look at themselves, you just
Michelle Moreno:need to look at to what's actually happening in your restaurant business.
Michelle Moreno:Secondly, everybody has room to up level and God forbid that I
Michelle Moreno:never don't have room to up level.
Michelle Moreno:I don't want to be sat going.
Michelle Moreno:Yeah, I've.
Michelle Moreno:Right.
Michelle Moreno:I wanna think I've got this, I've nailed that.
Michelle Moreno:I'm doing well at that.
Michelle Moreno:I'm gonna keep checking myself on it.
Michelle Moreno:Now where do I wanna go next?
Michelle Moreno:And so if you wanna be great, you have to, there's always
Michelle Moreno:gonna be an opportunity to at
JimmTaylor:level.
JimmTaylor:That retention thing is, is so interesting and I find I should be, I should use
JimmTaylor:my, choose my words carefully here.
JimmTaylor:But I find it kind of funny that it's not actually funny,
JimmTaylor:but I find it kind of funny.
JimmTaylor:our industry, you know, depending who you talk to, anywhere from 30% to
JimmTaylor:120% turnover annually in any given restaurant, depending who you ask.
JimmTaylor:And you know how they look at that information.
JimmTaylor:I mean, any other industry in the world would say, stop everything
JimmTaylor:and we need to address this.
JimmTaylor:Yeah.
JimmTaylor:If there was a hundred percent turnover in any other industry,
JimmTaylor:they would literally say, there is nothing else that's more important.
JimmTaylor:And, and for some reason in hospitality, we just kind of accepted
JimmTaylor:this as the norm for a very long.
JimmTaylor:So, you know, upleveling leadership is, I think it's amazing what
JimmTaylor:you're working on because that's so much of the, the opportunity
Michelle Moreno:and your point of there is nothing more important
Michelle Moreno:is exactly where we're at because this industry creates memories.
Michelle Moreno:Yeah.
Michelle Moreno:Creates memories for our guests, creates memories for us, creates opportunities.
Michelle Moreno:and we're, we're, we're missing out on them opportunities cuz we just
Michelle Moreno:haven't given people the skills to be able to look after other people.
Michelle Moreno:They all know how to read the p and l.
Michelle Moreno:They know how to waste their time writing that budget that they can't achieve.
Michelle Moreno:Mm-hmm.
Michelle Moreno:. And we're focusing on things that are setting them up to fail where
Michelle Moreno:they, we could be focusing them on setting everyone up for success.
Adam Lamb:You're absolutely right.
Adam Lamb:I, I wanna give a quick shout out to, you know, some of our loyal listeners,
Adam Lamb:you know, Moraine, Ray Eli, Amira Doug.
Adam Lamb:New Hook, please, brother.
Adam Lamb:I hope you're feeling much better.
Adam Lamb:None of us knew what was going on, but that's all right.
Adam Lamb:. Andy Jones, Michael V.
Adam Lamb:Scott Turner.
Adam Lamb:Just really grateful for the support and and the enthusiasm that you
Adam Lamb:guys provide us especially the comments cuz it keeps it all fresh.
Adam Lamb:and Michelle, you know, you've got a beautiful website.
Adam Lamb:It's classy.
Adam Lamb:I mean, geez.
Adam Lamb:I looked at that and I thought, mm, god, I wish I could do that.
Adam Lamb:But the thing that caught my eye, a couple things is that you have a lead.
Adam Lamb:You have a lead gen or a lead generator called making time your superpower.
Adam Lamb:Yeah.
Adam Lamb:And the reason I bring that up is because it seems like one of the
Adam Lamb:biggest objections to learning advance.
Adam Lamb:Trying to take in more information so you can do your job better is, and,
Adam Lamb:and this is not universal, but more often than not, I hear somebody say,
Adam Lamb:I, I, I just don't have time for that.
Adam Lamb:Yeah.
Adam Lamb:So speak to me about what you are doing to address that particular situation.
Michelle Moreno:I think that understanding time and how you can
Michelle Moreno:do a mind shift, mindset shifts on it, releases a lot of pressure that
Michelle Moreno:we put on ourselves that do not.
Michelle Moreno:So there's, there's stress that does exist, you know, and then
Michelle Moreno:you can and can't control it.
Michelle Moreno:And then the stress we create and we have to learn how to understand
Michelle Moreno:it, to be able to change it.
Michelle Moreno:And I think you are completely right as every answer, every
Michelle Moreno:time is we don't have time.
Michelle Moreno:We don't have time.
Michelle Moreno:And it's starting to understand it.
Michelle Moreno:So when we talk about making time, our super.
Michelle Moreno:We talk about what's actually stopping us, first of all,
Michelle Moreno:and it falls into two counts.
Michelle Moreno:One of them is what I call, what they call time scarcity, or time fam.
Michelle Moreno:Mm-hmm.
Michelle Moreno:, where there's things that were, if the dialogue were brought up with, you know, I
Michelle Moreno:don't have enough time with the years on.
Michelle Moreno:I can't believe I'm already 45.
Michelle Moreno:I know it's shocking, but true . Still feeling like a 22 year old.
Michelle Moreno:And we, we as a, as a culture, we put fear of time, like as if the curtain older
Michelle Moreno:isn't great in how much wisdom we've got.
Michelle Moreno:So I think first of all, we have to understand as.
Michelle Moreno:As a society, we enforce time fam and time scarcity on people within our vocabulary.
Michelle Moreno:So it's just there in our subconscious with us just even realizing it and
Michelle Moreno:it's starting to become aware of when are people having them conversations,
Michelle Moreno:when are you using them conversations cuz they don't serve anyone and
Michelle Moreno:they certainly don't serve you.
Michelle Moreno:The other part of that limitness with time is just time distraction all.
Michelle Moreno:Web and emails that we get nowadays, or the notification is someone contacting
Michelle Moreno:me on Slack, on WhatsApp, on an Instagram message, on a LinkedIn dm.
Michelle Moreno:The speed we can get to things like on Netflix.
Michelle Moreno:We have all these distractions in our lives as well that keep us from
Michelle Moreno:doing what really will still assess what will make us purposeful and what
Michelle Moreno:will make us be successful and if we are successful, so are other people.
Michelle Moreno:So they are the limitations with time.
Michelle Moreno:And then it's flipping the mindset to how do I become time affluent?
Michelle Moreno:How do I actually create more time?
Michelle Moreno:Which you can.
Michelle Moreno:And a couple of the ideas in there are things like, you've gotta get
Michelle Moreno:tune off, your notifications, your ding dings, your popups, you know?
Michelle Moreno:Every time you are a focus, every time you are gonna achieve something
Michelle Moreno:great, that sting distracts you.
Michelle Moreno:Yeah.
Michelle Moreno:Yeah.
Michelle Moreno:Perfect.
Michelle Moreno:So all your notifications, that's a classic Ariana Huffington, get
Michelle Moreno:rid of your notifications, you know, post I have a lovely table.
Michelle Moreno:If you're gonna focus on something, one post it note at a time, write it down.
Michelle Moreno:Don't have a to-do list.
Michelle Moreno:Yeah.
Michelle Moreno:Have a post it note with one thing you are doing at the time.
Michelle Moreno:Close everything else.
Michelle Moreno:And focus on that.
Michelle Moreno:You limit your distractions.
Michelle Moreno:You stay pure to what you are trying to achieve on it.
Michelle Moreno:And I think it's interesting you, the word priority is thousands of years old.
Michelle Moreno:Yeah.
Michelle Moreno:Thousands of years old.
Michelle Moreno:Only in the last hundred 50 years.
Michelle Moreno:And they've become a plural priorities.
Michelle Moreno:So up until 150 years ago, you could only have a.
Michelle Moreno:Now we have priorities and it, it, it doesn't make sense.
Michelle Moreno:We can only do one thing at a time.
Michelle Moreno:Our attention only goes that way and start understanding what can you
Michelle Moreno:control and what can't you control.
Michelle Moreno:You know, you have to get conscious with where you are wasting your time
Michelle Moreno:because if you are thinking about things that you are either making up
Michelle Moreno:or hasn't happened or isn't in your control, you are using valuable time.
Michelle Moreno:So trying to become time affluent is where you create more time for yourself
Michelle Moreno:and becoming aware of how you behave and what vocabulary you're using.
Adam Lamb:I think that's absolutely brilliant.
Adam Lamb:And I'm aware that to some extent, you know, watching this show would promote
Adam Lamb:folks to be more self-aware, right?
Adam Lamb:And to use a deeper inquiry as to what's going on, because we're often challenging
Adam Lamb:the norms in the hospitality industry.
Adam Lamb:And yet I know from time to time that I just go completely unconscious too.
Adam Lamb:Like, okay, I have popup blockers and feed blockers on all my devices,
Adam Lamb:yet there's this moment where I might be feeling, I dunno, maybe tired or
Adam Lamb:like, not necessarily achieving as much as I'd like to, and then default
Adam Lamb:to, oh, no, well, let me see what's, what's happening here or on this.
Adam Lamb:So, Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I think I hear you say is like this
Adam Lamb:is about creating healthy boundaries.
Michelle Moreno:Yeah.
Michelle Moreno:Completely.
Michelle Moreno:Completely.
Michelle Moreno:Increasing your knowledge on the boundaries.
Michelle Moreno:You can actually get hold of working out which boundaries suit you
Michelle Moreno:cuz we can't achieve everything.
Michelle Moreno:Mm-hmm.
Michelle Moreno:. And, and then respecting yourself to create the boundary.
Michelle Moreno:Cuz the resilience part in our industry means because we didn't have
Michelle Moreno:any boundaries within the industry.
Michelle Moreno:So you can't, when we say to people, can you do this?
Michelle Moreno:And they go, I haven't got time.
Michelle Moreno:You are completely right.
Michelle Moreno:The boundaries have been blurred for so long.
Michelle Moreno:We don't know whether we're going two steps forward or three steps back.
Michelle Moreno:And constantly it's more than three steps back because of
Michelle Moreno:these boundaries lines blurring.
Michelle Moreno:This is what needs to like be set in stone to move forward.
Adam Lamb:So how would you define a healthy boundary
Adam Lamb:from an unhealthy boundary?
Michelle Moreno:Oh, that's a personal conversation because someone's
Michelle Moreno:someone's one boundary to one.
Michelle Moreno:Like, it's like stress.
Michelle Moreno:There's two levels of stress, isn't it?
Michelle Moreno:There's a stress that can push you on with passion and it excites you, and
Michelle Moreno:there's a stress that ruins you, you know?
Michelle Moreno:I think you have to be able to take time, let it marinate.
Michelle Moreno:I think sometimes we're too quick to respond, you know, let it marinate.
Michelle Moreno:Take time and work out.
Michelle Moreno:What, what can you do?
Michelle Moreno:First of all, what, even if you start journaling to start going,
Michelle Moreno:that was too far for me today.
Michelle Moreno:That was too far to me.
Michelle Moreno:And you start learning about yourself, I don't think it's as easy
Michelle Moreno:as I'm gonna put that boundary in.
Michelle Moreno:Cause everybody's boundaries are different.
Michelle Moreno:Different, and people need different things at different times in their lives.
JimmTaylor:Yeah.
JimmTaylor:Yeah.
JimmTaylor:I mean, so how do you go about helping people get over that hump?
JimmTaylor:Because everyone is dominated by their phone and their email and.
JimmTaylor:Like you said, even things like Netflix, but you know, the notifications or
JimmTaylor:the, the urge to check do I, if the notifications are turned off, the
JimmTaylor:urge to check to see if there are any, you know, anything new coming in
JimmTaylor:the the inbox and that kind of thing.
JimmTaylor:How do you help people get through that?
Michelle Moreno:It is the tools.
Michelle Moreno:You have to turn them off.
Michelle Moreno:You know, you have to, like for example, I don't have a phone in my bedroom at night.
Michelle Moreno:I have a classic alarm clock.
Michelle Moreno:You know, you have to put in like little rules for yourself
Michelle Moreno:to be able to start managing it.
Michelle Moreno:I think it's also what do you do collectively?
Michelle Moreno:Things are difficult on your own.
Michelle Moreno:So what can you do as a group?
Michelle Moreno:So emails, you know, when people.
Michelle Moreno:They have a chat and then they have a response and that, you know,
Michelle Moreno:you could pick up the phone and have a conversation much quicker.
Michelle Moreno:You know, there'd be no room for confusion.
Michelle Moreno:We've socially connected with each other and supported each other, and so what
Michelle Moreno:can we do as a group that can impact it?
Michelle Moreno:Or then nonsense emails.
Michelle Moreno:Thanks.
Michelle Moreno:They're no great.
Michelle Moreno:I'll get back to you and it just feels overwhelmed for other people.
Michelle Moreno:I hope we're all polite people.
Michelle Moreno:I love you lot.
Michelle Moreno:I don't need to tell you 20 times a day in an.
Michelle Moreno:You know, and so what can we do collectively to, to do it?
Michelle Moreno:Cause it is difficult on your own, but if we actually go at it like a tribe
Michelle Moreno:between how we run our industry, we can probably get further on.
Adam Lamb:Yeah.
Adam Lamb:On your website you also talk about this very fascinating
Adam Lamb:concept called Embodied Leader.
Adam Lamb:. And, and I'm not quite clear whether or not I understand what that means.
Adam Lamb:So I'll be the dummy in the room and praise my hand.
Adam Lamb:Like Michelle, like, what do you mean by embodied leadership?
Adam Lamb:I mean, aren't I already embodied?
Adam Lamb:I mean, look at my corporate form.
Adam Lamb:Like, what exactly are you talking about?
Michelle Moreno:Beautiful.
Michelle Moreno:Yes.
Michelle Moreno:I, the, the idea comes from, it's not what you say, it's how you say it.
Michelle Moreno:, our, our words have power.
Michelle Moreno:I do not underestimate them, but what, what the power is,
Michelle Moreno:is how we ize them words.
Michelle Moreno:So we have words that we, physical, we can't, we can't be angry
Michelle Moreno:and say happy words, you know?
Michelle Moreno:They just, you know, our, our body aligns with the words we're choosing.
Michelle Moreno:It's, it's naturalist from the moment we're born.
Michelle Moreno:You know, it's very difficult to be that.
Michelle Moreno:That in control of it.
Michelle Moreno:And I think also our body tells a story constantly, even when we're not talking.
Michelle Moreno:So again, from mistakes, when I was in the bad mood, everybody knew about
Michelle Moreno:it and I hadn't opened my mouth.
Michelle Moreno:You know, that gray cloud of shoes on geo, you know?
Michelle Moreno:And I think that my whole, again, everything I wanna do is I wanna help
Michelle Moreno:you not make them, don't to not make the mistakes I made along the way.
Michelle Moreno:And understanding that leadership and our industry cuz it's a
Michelle Moreno:performance, that's what we're in.
Michelle Moreno:If you are, whether you are even back house or front house, we
Michelle Moreno:are socially, we are connected to each other with an energy.
Michelle Moreno:That's what drives the passion of our industry.
Michelle Moreno:Yeah.
Michelle Moreno:And so the embodiment is in any form of leadership is keeper in our in.
Michelle Moreno:It's like up there so much more because if the volume level is
Michelle Moreno:turned up in our industry mm-hmm.
Michelle Moreno:, we're not sat in a little office where everyone's quiet, you
Michelle Moreno:know, we are, we are there.
Adam Lamb:Yeah.
Adam Lamb:That's step that reminds me of a concept of a somatic response, which is Yeah,
Adam Lamb:which is a physically embodied response.
Adam Lamb:Very often during moments of stress, there's an opportunity to do ETF tapping
Adam Lamb:and things of that sort because it.
Adam Lamb:Only because we've gotten used to living in our heads and talking from our
Adam Lamb:heads as opposed to actually relating to what's actually going in our body.
Michelle Moreno:Yeah.
Michelle Moreno:How do you feel, Jim?
Michelle Moreno:What can you smell?
Michelle Moreno:What can you touch?
Michelle Moreno:What you've, you know, all of that.
JimmTaylor:Yeah.
JimmTaylor:Hmm.
JimmTaylor:Yeah.
JimmTaylor:You, I mean, this stuff is all fascinating to me.
JimmTaylor:And we were talking about something right before the show started,
JimmTaylor:Michelle, that I'm really curious to hear more about, and I think it was
JimmTaylor:one of your, your top three steps.
JimmTaylor:Something like that to help people move forward in their leadership.
JimmTaylor:But this concept of small talk, can you get into, I, I think it's amazing how you
JimmTaylor:take something that some people either don't even think about, some people don't
JimmTaylor:like, you know, some people have a hard time with, but everybody does every day.
JimmTaylor:This concept of, can you talk to us about this concept of how small
JimmTaylor:talkin helped improve leadership?
Michelle Moreno:Yeah, of course.
Michelle Moreno:And this goes on to like having time as well.
Michelle Moreno:So for every manager that says, I don't have time for a one-to-one,
Michelle Moreno:you know, we all know that human beings, we need to be seen and heard.
Michelle Moreno:And again, in our industry struggling, we need to be spending
Michelle Moreno:more time being seen and heard.
Michelle Moreno:So, The power of small talk came about because what can we do in our businesses
Michelle Moreno:daily while we're polishing the cutlery, while we're taking the bin side where
Michelle Moreno:we, where we're having family meal to be able to create these moments.
Michelle Moreno:So the power of small talk is just that.
Michelle Moreno:What are we doing?
Michelle Moreno:Chatting with each other, looking each other eyes.
Michelle Moreno:Seeing each other and how can we, the benefits of small talk
Michelle Moreno:is, is creating belonging.
Michelle Moreno:It's creating respect.
Michelle Moreno:It's creating connection, and what can we do?
Michelle Moreno:It's two simple things like going in every day and making sure you know
Michelle Moreno:every single person's name and you say hi to everyone, especially as a leader.
Michelle Moreno:You know, don't be coming anywhere near me.
Michelle Moreno:If you're a leader and you don't know everyone's name in your team,
Michelle Moreno:don't be coming anywhere near me.
Michelle Moreno:Walk right back out.
Michelle Moreno:Like basics, respect.
Michelle Moreno:Hello, how are you?
Michelle Moreno:How's your day?
Michelle Moreno:Our job as well to inspire and excite people.
Michelle Moreno:Yeah.
Michelle Moreno:You know?
JimmTaylor:So can I ask you a a, maybe there's a, it's funny cuz I'm
JimmTaylor:gonna ask you this question and it, it.
JimmTaylor:about somebody who I worked with for a very long time.
JimmTaylor:Yes.
JimmTaylor:That was maybe one of the worst small talkers I've ever experienced in my life.
JimmTaylor:Yeah.
JimmTaylor:And it came across as ingenuine.
JimmTaylor:So this person, and we used to joke about, and two, you know, with this
JimmTaylor:person, but we used to joke about it all the time, is his go-to line was what's
JimmTaylor:going on in your neck of the woods?
JimmTaylor:Oh wow.
JimmTaylor:And he would literally say that to everybody in an
JimmTaylor:attempt to create small talk.
JimmTaylor:Yeah.
JimmTaylor:And I think he genuinely was trying to.
JimmTaylor:. But it, it kind of became across as the, as though it wasn't genuine.
JimmTaylor:So how do you help somebody who's maybe not comfortable doing that?
JimmTaylor:Because you're right, there's so much power, there's so much opportunity,
JimmTaylor:there's so much, you know, it's a way to show people that you care about
JimmTaylor:how they're doing, but how do you help people who are maybe going, I don't
JimmTaylor:even know what to say or what to ask.
Michelle Moreno:I think one, don't ask the same question to every single person.
Michelle Moreno:If you find out something, if you don't, you need to, A part of the Paris Mode
Michelle Moreno:small talk is making sure you see every.
Michelle Moreno:One as an individual.
Michelle Moreno:So you should be already trying to find something out about their lives that has
Michelle Moreno:nothing to do, maybe with the work itself.
Michelle Moreno:And so if you actually, if you are somebody who finds it not so
Michelle Moreno:comfortable anyway, you have to find out things personally about someone.
Michelle Moreno:So then you can go back with a genuine question.
Michelle Moreno:How was your weekend with your, your mother?
Michelle Moreno:Did you have a nice holiday?
Michelle Moreno:So there's questions that are.
Michelle Moreno:To that other person.
Michelle Moreno:The other thing you have to think about, if someone's an introvert,
Michelle Moreno:their key skill is listening.
Michelle Moreno:Listening to understand.
Michelle Moreno:Do not listen to respond.
Michelle Moreno:Keep your mouth shut and pay attention to what's being said.
Michelle Moreno:Listen to understand.
Michelle Moreno:Do not listen to respond.
Michelle Moreno:So if you are that type of character as well, use your superpower
Michelle Moreno:as an introvert to listen.
Michelle Moreno:Cause you'll pick up a lot more about what's going on than
Michelle Moreno:somebody like, than me there.
Michelle Moreno:You know, ferociously running through
Adam Lamb:a room.
Adam Lamb:. The other thing that strikes me is you know, I've had conversations with
Adam Lamb:service staff and trainings where, you know, coming to the table and
Adam Lamb:says was, how was everything tonight?
Adam Lamb:You know, generalist like that.
Adam Lamb:To me, that just shows that sh that he or she's not really
Adam Lamb:concerned about my experience.
Adam Lamb:However, if I walk up to the table and I see a, you know, a nice 10 ounce
Adam Lamb:piece of tuna seared half eaten, Can use that on a pickup and like, oh, so
Adam Lamb:how was the tuna like to be able to dial into something that's specific to them.
Adam Lamb:And Michelle, I, I can't tell you how like thrilling this is because I
Adam Lamb:recognize that, you know, the benefit of small talk, first off small talk,
Adam Lamb:it minimizes what, what the impact is.
Adam Lamb:Because really what I think you are telling us to do is not only to bring
Adam Lamb:our whole selves to work, but also allow everybody else to bring their whole and
Adam Lamb:to recognize that in the moment, right?
Michelle Moreno:Yeah.
Michelle Moreno:Completely, completely.
Michelle Moreno:It.
Michelle Moreno:And with every, we know and we support the Bo chef, you know, this small talk are
Michelle Moreno:the moments that we might catch someone, I'll get upset now that we may catch
Michelle Moreno:somebody that is having a tough time.
Michelle Moreno:And by us taking this moment to think, that is part of my job to see
Michelle Moreno:people, to hear people to listen.
Michelle Moreno:We might catch them when they do need something.
Michelle Moreno:And your point as well, Adam, is you've got to be specific.
Michelle Moreno:You, you can't just say thank you to people.
Michelle Moreno:What am I thanking you?
Michelle Moreno:Thank you for running into my section with me and jumping
Michelle Moreno:in when we were in the weeds.
Michelle Moreno:Thank you.
Michelle Moreno:Like get specific.
Michelle Moreno:We've got, we're ever gonna layer one or we're go in layer 2, 3, 4.
Adam Lamb:Oh.
Adam Lamb:The problem is when you go general it, that's when it
Adam Lamb:feels inauthentic, right, Jim?
Adam Lamb:Yeah.
Adam Lamb:It's like you're not really like, of course, did he or she actually see me?
Adam Lamb:Or is this kind of like a blanket strategy in order to keep me quiet or calm or
JimmTaylor:whatever that Yeah.
JimmTaylor:And Michelle, to your point, what you're talking about there, And I, I love
JimmTaylor:how you, you talk about it in terms of the, call it small talk, because that's
JimmTaylor:kind of, that is what it is, right?
JimmTaylor:Yeah, yeah.
JimmTaylor:But you know, if you say that the term small, talk to somebody,
JimmTaylor:there's usually not a positive connection to that terminology.
JimmTaylor:But that's what it is.
JimmTaylor:And I think, you know, Adam, we've talked about this lots before, and,
JimmTaylor:and Michelle, you and I too, about the importance of protecting the employee.
JimmTaylor:Yeah.
JimmTaylor:Protecting the people we work with, protecting the, the experience.
JimmTaylor:You know, people aren't okay with just a 2% raise in a pizza party anymore.
JimmTaylor:They wanna work for somebody who's gonna protect them.
JimmTaylor:Yeah.
JimmTaylor:And it sounds okay.
JimmTaylor:It sounds cheesy protection, right?
JimmTaylor:But it's true.
JimmTaylor:You get, you have to make sure
Adam Lamb:you take care of people and protect their experience.
Adam Lamb:Yeah, I, there's, after, after article, blog post research studies, it all comes
Adam Lamb:back down to like the top three things is staff wanna feel appreciated seen.
Adam Lamb:and have a clear channel of communication and.
Adam Lamb:If we're not attempting to see them beyond what they do for us in that
Adam Lamb:particular moment, like I said, it could come across as being disingenuous,
Adam Lamb:like they don't really care about it actually would probably hurt worse to
Adam Lamb:hear that, to know that like he, like that person's trying to make an effort,
Adam Lamb:yet they won't even go all that way, but.
Adam Lamb:I won't believe it.
Adam Lamb:The point, because I wanna be conscious of time because this is all about solutions.
Adam Lamb:Michelle, you gave one the benefit of small talk.
Adam Lamb:So gimme two other ideas that someone can walk outta here after
Adam Lamb:listening this and actually put in a practice to uplevel their, I'm
Adam Lamb:not even gonna call it management, their, their leadership skills.
Michelle Moreno:Yeah.
Michelle Moreno:And these are life skills, but we going on nicely to what
Michelle Moreno:you said about appreciation.
Michelle Moreno:The number two step I would give you is gracious feedback.
Michelle Moreno:Yeah.
Michelle Moreno:People need feedback and we need to show appreciation.
Michelle Moreno:And there's two ways to appreciate, there's one on one appreciation
Michelle Moreno:cuz some people like it small, they, they're more humble, they
Michelle Moreno:don't want it called out loads.
Michelle Moreno:And there's other people who want it like in pre-meal.
Michelle Moreno:You know, they wanna have all or it the team effort, you know, like
Michelle Moreno:motivation is driven successfully by teams, not by individuals, you know?
Michelle Moreno:So I think it's gracious feedback or you need to be in the moment given feedback.
Michelle Moreno:That's the good stuff.
Michelle Moreno:The appreciation.
Michelle Moreno:Think of it individually and think of it publicly when and when also.
Michelle Moreno:You should have a culture of that given feedback of going, I believe in you.
Michelle Moreno:I think we can get you toed.
Michelle Moreno:We're probably at QR at the moment.
Michelle Moreno:It's my responsibility to help you get up there and these are the steps
Michelle Moreno:we need to do to get you there.
Michelle Moreno:And I'm doing this because I believe in you cuz I'm investing in you.
Michelle Moreno:Feedback allows people to grow.
Michelle Moreno:Feedback allows people that I'm going to invest in you
Michelle Moreno:because you deserve to be more.
Michelle Moreno:Otherwise, if I don't want feedback, no problem at all.
Michelle Moreno:You know, again, out the door,
Adam Lamb:you know, but, but you did say it was like gracious feedback, right?
Adam Lamb:A way of which giving it so that, you know, I'm always struck
Adam Lamb:by like how many skill sets we actually employ in this industry.
Adam Lamb:And one of them is, In order to be heard or understood, you have
Adam Lamb:to speak in a language that that person will will get it right.
Adam Lamb:So,
Michelle Moreno:yeah.
Michelle Moreno:And on their own you only give constructive feedback graciously
Michelle Moreno:on graciously their own.
Michelle Moreno:Never in public, I don't care how busy it is, there's a time and a place.
Michelle Moreno:You know that the moment you, the moment you publicly give constructive feedback,
Michelle Moreno:even if graciously you've just made that person feel embarrassed, it's not gonna,
Michelle Moreno:they're not gonna get anything from it.
Michelle Moreno:You've wasted your time, you've made them feel bad.
Michelle Moreno:You have to wait until you are on your own to give the constructive feedback, whereas
Michelle Moreno:the praise go for your life publicly
Adam Lamb:as you like.
Adam Lamb:Sure, sure, sure, sure.
Adam Lamb:And number.
Michelle Moreno:This is a leadership journey, which comes back to what
Michelle Moreno:you mentioned earlier, this, I have three stages of leadership
Michelle Moreno:and first stage is self leadership.
Michelle Moreno:Yeah.
Michelle Moreno:Until, until you become self-aware, until you can self-manage up, down,
Michelle Moreno:left, right, whichever way you wanna be.
Michelle Moreno:You have to know that wherever you are in your career, it doesn't matter if
Michelle Moreno:you've just started, you are on your journey of leadership cuz it's your life.
Michelle Moreno:You are leading, you are on your journey of leadership.
Michelle Moreno:So stage one, know about what do you want, what do you wanna be,
Michelle Moreno:who do you wanna be as a person?
Michelle Moreno:Leadership is not about hierarchy.
Michelle Moreno:Leadership is about wanting to drive something forward and wanting to be part
Michelle Moreno:of it, and to watch your self leader.
Michelle Moreno:, become aware of it.
Michelle Moreno:Wherever you are, whatever age you are, self-awareness, self-management,
Michelle Moreno:what you need to learn about yourself.
Michelle Moreno:The second part of the leadership journey is the power of influence,
Michelle Moreno:connections, networking.
Michelle Moreno:You know, especially when you are in that mid management level or you working
Michelle Moreno:between departments, you that influence.
Michelle Moreno:You can have, you know, whether you're an introvert or an
Michelle Moreno:extrovert, know your superpowers.
Michelle Moreno:That that really can move things forwards as a community.
Michelle Moreno:Yes, and we need to, I don't think I networked enough now.
Michelle Moreno:Jim kindly is showing me how to LinkedIn network and it's flying.
Michelle Moreno:I don't think I networked enough when I was younger and I would genuinely.
Michelle Moreno:Say you need people, you never know what they can do for you.
Michelle Moreno:And the last part would be that then you get to classic leadership,
Michelle Moreno:which is other leadership, where you are responsible for people.
Michelle Moreno:They'll ask yourself the question, do I wanna be responsible for other people?
Michelle Moreno:Not everybody likes it.
Adam Lamb:Such a great question.
Adam Lamb:Yeah.
Adam Lamb:That's so good.
Michelle Moreno:So I wanna be, I don't, some people don't want it.
Michelle Moreno:Don't do it.
Michelle Moreno:There's other ways.
Michelle Moreno:Do
Adam Lamb:Lee, I, I talked to somebody last night that where they
Adam Lamb:were in a position that where they really loved, they really excelled
Adam Lamb:and managed and said, well, okay, so they do really well over here.
Adam Lamb:Let's put them over here.
Adam Lamb:And their not only their, like, their response to the employment,
Adam Lamb:like they went into depression, like they couldn't handle, like, it
Adam Lamb:was a different mindset for them.
Adam Lamb:And you know, Michelle, to your point that, you know, leadership's only job
Adam Lamb:is to nurture relationships within the.
Adam Lamb:I don't think can be like, like that should be ringing in.
Adam Lamb:Everybody's there all the time.
Adam Lamb:Your only job Yeah.
Adam Lamb:Is creating relationship.
Michelle Moreno:Yeah.
Michelle Moreno:And you know that thing of other leadership, the moment you become this
Michelle Moreno:classic team hierarchical leadership Yeah.
Michelle Moreno:It is not about you.
Michelle Moreno:It is about them.
Michelle Moreno:And that is where we get it completely wrong.
Michelle Moreno:It is about them every single moment.
Michelle Moreno:Right.
Adam Lamb:Yeah, I well said . Now, now that's so true.
Adam Lamb:Again, I gotta be, you know the bad guy on the dock and just say,
Adam Lamb:Hey, I think we're out of time.
Adam Lamb:Which is such a shame because if, Michelle, I'm pretty clear that Jim and
Adam Lamb:I could be here a couple hours with you talking about this kind of stuff, and I
Adam Lamb:know that there's things that I wanted to dip into that we didn't have time for.
Adam Lamb:So first off, I would respectfully ask, can we invite you back?
Adam Lamb:Would you like to come back on
Michelle Moreno:the show?
Michelle Moreno:It's like Brittany Brown when she has a costume.
Michelle Moreno:Yes, I would, yes,
Adam Lamb:I would.
Adam Lamb:Cause I, Jim, I don't know if it's just me, but I get, I get the impression
Adam Lamb:that Michelle, once she gets that motor running, man, there's no stopping her
JimmTaylor:Yeah, there's, and from what I know of Michelle, she's got
JimmTaylor:a ton of value to offer and there's lots more where this came from.
JimmTaylor:So, I mean, I think.
JimmTaylor:15 different questions ready to go for you for the next time, so
Adam Lamb:Absolutely.
Adam Lamb:Hopefully we can have you.
Adam Lamb:Yeah.
Adam Lamb:And we didn't even get into like your work experience, the fact
Adam Lamb:that you've worked all over the world in many different situations.
Adam Lamb:For a time you were even kind of like living that jet set.
Adam Lamb:Lifestyle that a lot, that a lot of people would aspire to,
Adam Lamb:only to kind of discover that.
Adam Lamb:Yeah.
Adam Lamb:You know, that's cracked up to be.
Adam Lamb:Yeah.
Michelle Moreno:Look, it's gorgeous parts of it, but I was a, I was a woman at
Michelle Moreno:board level, being the only woman in many board meetings and you know, I, I, you
Michelle Moreno:know, I've got that bits of passion for me too, to get more women up to that area.
Michelle Moreno:So yeah, there's, there's pros and cons.
Michelle Moreno:It was glamorous and fabulous and I was na you know,
Michelle Moreno:. Adam Lamb: So in a sentence, what
Michelle Moreno:. Michelle Moreno: I am determined
Michelle Moreno:industry great and to make people want to love it so they can have the
Michelle Moreno:memories that may even close that.
Michelle Moreno:I have been lucky enough to have myself
Adam Lamb:falling back in love.
Adam Lamb:I'm just putting this in the chat cuz that's just grew you.
Adam Lamb:Oh.
Michelle Moreno:I feel like that's a song outta.
Adam Lamb:Jim, anything, any last words for Michelle?
Adam Lamb:I mean, now, now her motor's running.
Adam Lamb:Like, I don't know how she's gonna go
JimmTaylor:to sleep, but that's, yeah.
JimmTaylor:Well, Michelle, thank you so much.
JimmTaylor:I think the, my big takeaway is the small talk saying, I mean,
JimmTaylor:I, it just takes a different spin on, on what that whole concept is.
JimmTaylor:I think I personally believe in never saying no to a conversation, whether
JimmTaylor:that's with someone I don't know, or with somebody you know, at the
JimmTaylor:staff level, or an employee or some, a colleague, whatever that might.
JimmTaylor:You know, I think I, I've got a new lens to look through in terms of the small
JimmTaylor:talk things, so thank you for that.
JimmTaylor:Yeah.
Adam Lamb:Well, thank you.
Adam Lamb:Thank you Michelle, for your time and your expertise and your enthusiasm and
Adam Lamb:yes, we're so excited to have you back.
Adam Lamb:And I just want to reiterate, so there's the benefit of small talk.
Adam Lamb:There is I'm just looking back at my notes.
Adam Lamb:The benefit of gracious feedback.
Adam Lamb:Correct?
Adam Lamb:Yeah.
Adam Lamb:And then number three is the three stages of leadership and being conscious enough
Adam Lamb:to know where you're at in that space.
Adam Lamb:Where if you're in the lower echelon, then that's probably a time for seeking
Adam Lamb:out mentors or or other leaders to kind of emulate and network with.
Adam Lamb:And then as you move forward, then it becomes much less about you and
Adam Lamb:more about the people that you.
Adam Lamb:So kind of tying that all up in a bow and thank you very much for that
Adam Lamb:wisdom and we really look forward to
Michelle Moreno:having you back.
Michelle Moreno:Thank you so much for having me, Jen.
Michelle Moreno:You have a luck day
Michelle Moreno:. Adam Lamb: Thanks Michelle, and we
Michelle Moreno:Thursday, 12 o'clock Eastern time on Turning the Table podcast page.